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Attentiveness is different towards me than to our trainer...

I haven't written in awhile but I have been keeping up with clicker training on my Bulldog since we are in a class that teaches using the clicker.  I've also begun clicker training not too long ago on my African Grey, but that's another story entirely.

This entry is about how my jaw dropped to the floor during yesterday's training class.  It was about fear and getting your puppy to overcome it.  Blake is definitely not afraid of much except for maybe a moving vaccum cleaner as long as it's turned on.  We got assigned to an agility tunnel and the trainer came specifically to work with us and when she's around, to Blake, nobody else exists.  (This is what my blog entry is mainly about).

The process went something like this.  At first Blake was mostly just sitting directly in front of her, waiting.  Any time he looked at the tunnel, touched the tunnel, went towards the tunnel, she would click and treat him.  Then she took him by the leash and led him to the entrance of the tunnel.  If he entered it, she would click him and throw a treat inside.  He was kinda just going in a few paces before backing himself out again.  Eventually, he went further in until he finally decided to just go all the way out of the tunnel and then finally getting his treats.  After he had completed a full start to finish going in and out of the tunnel twice (with me bringing him to the entrance of the tunnel), she asked me to drop his leash to see if he could do it without being "shown" and what he did was really amazing to me.  He sat there in front of her as usual.  He kept looking up at her and she kept telling him he was "cold."  He looked like he was getting impatient because he'd get up for a quick second but then sat right back down in front of her, waiting.  Thinking about it now, I think he was actually figuring out what he had to do to get his treat because at that moment, he got up, went in the tunnel and all the way through to the end without any hesitation at all, as if he decided that this is what he needs to do.  He got tons of treats of course, for this decision he made.  I stood there in amazement.  I always thought of him as a slow learner, but he did this in less than 5 tries and he's proven to me that he can pick things up quickly...so what disappointed me was how he doesn't "act" the same way to me as he does with the trainer.  I feel that this has a lot to do with how he learns with me compared to how quickly he learned with our trainer.

I admit, I'm a bit jealous that Blake gave her the attention I wish he could give to me.  I told her that he is so much more attentive towards her than to me.  I mean, when she left to help other students I took him to a hurdle and he was more concerned about going to her or to another puppy that was near us but when she was working with him, his full attention was on her and didn't even care about the other people with their puppies.  She said it's because she's more vocal and she clicks faster and she said it could be the treats she's using too.  I'm a bit skeptical.  I feel like my dog doesn't like me or something lol.  I know that sounds crazy.

I guess what I want to know is, what have I been doing wrong?  What am I not doing that she is doing?  Am I going to be able to get Blake to really pay that much attention to me as he does to the trainer even though up until this point, he hasn't?  What would I have to do?  Or... is this asking for a miracle? lol :(  Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated!

Trainers pay better

I frequently have this come up in classes. Usually the trainer is rewarding more frequently. Part of it is experience, we just notice things a novice might miss. A lot of it however is that the owner gives out fewer rewards than the trainer does. Wouldn't you rather a game where you win more often? It works the other way too. Sometimes I have a dog in class where the owner is not stretching the dog to do more and when I begin to work with the dog they run to the owner. I have to remember in those cases not to make it too difficult.

abbeygail's picture

Thank you so much for the

Thank you so much for the input!! :)  

I've thought about the timing and frequency in which I reward. One of the things that came to mind was that I don't reward him enough or that I'm expecting too much from him before he's ready for it I guess.  He'd begin to do what I want him to do but I won't do any clicks because I want him to keep doing what he's doing for longer.  By the time I'm ready to actually click, I've lost his attention and he's moved on to other things before I've given him a chance to even get his reward (the sit and stay routine comes to mind).  I think maybe when he's around the trainer, he knows that she'll drop those treats for him because she's a heck of a lot faster than me at clicking and treating for the right thing and knows how to break up the learning process that allows him to learn quickly and get rewards more often.  I guess this is what is called shaping.

I'm still learning but I've made it a goal to become just as good as any trainer out there. :)

NayNay's picture

Good Luck!

Your welcome!

Training is a fun process and just like anything takes time to master and find your own nitch and your own talent. Its fun because you think that you are doing the training, but your dog is actually teaching you how to train them as well. When they respond to you, your own behavior is reinforced, and when they do not respond... you get the idea. I think thats why trainers reinforce more, it may be that they naturally know to do that, or they were trained by their animals without being aware of it.

Think of your voice as a powerful tool to use for training. My suggestion, especially if you are uncomfortable, is to first practice it at home with just you and your dog so you can get the idea of it without fear of strange looks. And you can take it a step further and have a bowl of your favorite candy with mm's or something. Everytime you use a louder more excited voice reward yourself with an mm. LOL! And if you do it really well the whole training session you get a bowl of ice cream! Woot! That would be my jackpot. =D

Joking aside, good luck with your training endevours. I would love to know if Blake gets better at responding to you.

Nay

abbeygail's picture

Hi Nay!I just wanted to

Hi Nay!

I just wanted to mention that the changing of treats really did help.  I took him to the dog park yesterday and I was able to get him to come when called without much of a fuss and I know it's because of the treats.  Hopefully I'll be able to wean him off of it.  He's also way more attentive during walks and training sessions.  

Now that I have the right treats, I need to start training him right!

NayNay's picture

HURRAH!

So glad to hear it!

Thanks for the update! For weaning, once the behavior is reliable you can start putting him on a variable schedual of reinforcement. Then reward for faster and more enthusiastic recall.

What great news!

Nay

NayNay's picture

I am reading the book "Culture Clash"

This book is by Jean Donaldson. In it she talks about a variety of different things. One of them is why dogs behave differently around trainers then owners. Because, heck, it happens all the time. You take your dog to get trained, and it seems as though the dog 'loves' the trainer more, does more for the trainer then for you. But does the dog really 'love' the trainer more? NO!

The thing is, the trainer has a lot more expience with training then you do, hence the reason why you are taking a class from her. Anyways, she did a study with owners trying to train dogs vs.  trainers training dogs.

On average, the trainers gave more feedback to the dogs about every 6 seconds. The owners only gave feedback every 20 sec. The feedback was in terms of treats and praise 3 times more often in fact, or doing the "AH AH" which in your trainers case is prolly the same thing as 'cold'.

Their timing was also better, and they set reasonable criteria for the dog to accomplish.

She also goes on to say that the owners acted a lot like 'trees'. "They supplied little in the way of feedback to the dog, good or bad." There were two types of this. If the dog did something awesome, or something horrible, the response by the owner was the same. Same amount of treats. Also, she said that she noticed that a lot of times the owners were slow in giving treats, late with reinforcement.

So, what your trainer was saying about all of that could be true. Also, check into see what kind of treats she is using. As that, of course, can make a difference.

I would suggest checking into your own behavior and seeing if you do anything that can be tweaked to make better. Training is a learning process for both your dog and you. It does not, however, have anything to do with your dog loving your trainer more. AT ALL.

I hope that helped, and all of the information I gave did come from the book. My little disclaimer.

Nay

abbeygail's picture

Hi Nay! I really appreciate

Hi Nay!

I really appreciate your reply! <3 I was already pretty sure that a lot of the issue probably had to do with the way I do things.  I think I'm uncertain if I'm training correctly resulting in some hesitation when it comes to clicking.  I also know that I'm not as vocal as the trainer is and I'm probably a lot slower in delivering treats too.  Another thing I just thought of was that she is wayyyy louder than I am when she communicates with him.  I remember her actually saying that one of things is that she's not embarrassed to be loud to either encourage him or to let him know that what he's doing is a no-no. 

Hmm, I'm starting to see where I need improvement lol.  I just need to feel more confident in what I'm doing rather than second guessing myself and not worry about what other people are thinking when I talk to my dog in a louder voice.  I've already bought the treats she said she's using so I've got that covered.

Here's to hoping, and thanks again for the reply!  I'll be checking out that book you referenced too.

Abbey