Well, I'm very interested in learning more about clicker training, so I've done 4 sessions with our family dog, Jasmine, an 8 year old mellow, yellow Lab.
The first session was clicking/treating with her regular kibble for eye contact. She didn't seem to get it. I might have been mistaken to grab a bunch of kibble in my Right hand, while the clicker was in my Left hand. We did lots of our early training with a piece of kibble in a clenched fist to lure sit, down, stay, roll over - so Jasmine started staring at my hand so hard I though she was going to burn a hole in my hand with her gaze alone. Of course our trainer taught us to use handsignals as cues, so that's logical.
The second session she was more willing to steal a quick glance to my eyes, and I click/treated for that. At first I rewarded if she looked 'more or less' near my eyes. Later I click/treated when I actually saw the whites of her eyes, because her pupils were really pointed at me.
In between sessions I realized how 'rough' I am when we go for bathroom walks. I stand around with a 6 foot leash, and if she gets to the edge, she feels the pressure on her neck. But I also give plenty of light, quick, yanks when I want to change direction, or hurry her. I also realize that I'm really stingy with my treats - yet she seems about as excited as anyone I've ever met over her regular dry kibble, so....
I'm reading more about clicker training, and hearing the phrase WLL - walking on a loose leash. I want to teach her that soon! I've stopped yanking - that's a relief.
Third session I did some clicks for eye contact, and some for targeting - if her nose touched a soft dog-frisbee, then I clicked, and tossed a kibble out of the way, and kicked the frisbee across the kitchen floor so she could nose touch again. Part of the challenge was seeing if she did actually touch with her nose, although in the beginning this wasn't a problem since I was just looking for an approximate nose-touch.
Tonight was the 4th session. I had read about 300 pecks, so I decided to start with clicking eye-contact, but increasing the duration required by one second each time. She totally seemed solid with getting that I wanted eye contact, with some duration. Wow - that's a huge improvement. She still did some staring at my hand. I just smiled and waited. After a bit of that, I brought out the frisbee and clicked some nose-touch while it was on the floor. I wanted to see if she could use it as a moving target, so I picked it up and held it with my left clicker hand, keeping the kibble in my right hand. That was physically challenging - and I tossed the kibble before the click twice. Oh well, I'll learn!
I had been putting off this 4th session, but once we started I started having some fun, and Jasmine seemed to be having fun too. So I picked up a pencil and clicked for a nose touch. She did this a few times, seemed like she was starting to get the hang of it, and then just went back to 'sit' and 'down.' I think she was getting tired, so I went back to working with the frisbee for a while, and she was able to nose it on the ground very well, and mostly while I held it too. I didn't want to work much, just to end on a positive note, since I know that she is reading my body language, and I was a teeny bit disappointed when the pencil stopped working. Overall I'm totally amazed.
I'm hoping that someone will point me to directions how to split the step that lead to me throwing the frisbee and Jasmine catching it and bringing it back to me. That's what I'd really like. I don't think I really have the perseverance to get her offleash safely, but I do have a 50 foot lead that I could set up. What's next?
Smiles,
RB
Human losing motivation
Good news is that I'm training more often, bad news is I'm feeling less motivated. Lately I've been throwing a knotted rope. J will sometimes run after it, but it's hard for her to leave the 'treat hand.' If she does go after it I click when she touches it, then thow the treat in the opposite direction. Then I pick up the rope or kick it and see if she touches it again. After a few successes, I'll wait and click to her holding it in her mouth and returning towards me a few steps. Once she hears the click she races back to me to get the tossed kibble.
I'm not sure how to turn this into the full 'pick up the toy, carry it to me, drop it' chain. It seems like just tossing her kibble and seeing her run and search for it is just as fun - why bother with the toy?
((shrugs))
RB
Keep at it!
You really have to take everything step by step, especially if the animal is just not getting it. By trying to take things too fast, the animal will actually learn slower. For example with math, you have to learn number and what they are, then you learn addition and subration, then multiplication and division. You can't learn how to divide without knowing about subraction first and having a firm knoweldge of it. Just as you can't subtract without have that firm foundation of what numbers are and exactly what they mean. If you only have a vaugue idea of any of those and someone tried to teach you the next step you would be completely lost.
You will know that your dog is ready to move onto the next step because the behavior will be completely reliable and dependable. They realize 'Hey, that was clicked and rewarded before why not this time?' And then they will try something a little different, to get the click.
If it will make it easier on you, break down the chain into very small steps. And remember to do the chain backwards. Focus on just those steps one at a time, and when you feel she is ready go onto the next step do it. If she catches on and skips a step GREAT. the best part is you will be prepared for what comes next.
Keep at it! You will have a break through, and when you do you will feel WONDERFUL! Its all about effectivly communicating to your dog what you want.
Getting into a bit of a routine
Well, I'm getting into a bit of a routine. When I 'walk' her instead of putting 2 kibble in my pocket, I grab a small handful. I'm rewarding walking on a loose leash when it happens, by dropping kibble near my left foot. I'm also trying to give more verbal cues, so that when she is near the end of the lead, I might call her back to me to avoid the tug.
After the business and brushing is taken care of, I bring her back into the kitchen and try to think of something to do with the clicker. Her eye contact is much, much better, more often and longer duration. This morning I picked up one of her chew toys and clicker her for nosing it, then also for her taking it in her mouth. I found it comical that everytime she took it in her mouth, I'd click, and she'd drop it so fast in anticipation of that piece of kibble. I'd toss the kibble a ways so that I could pick the toy back up without having to rush or compete.
I can see why we are supposed to write down what we are doing, but I'm too lazy and unmotivated. I miss training with cues, but I'm willing to try it the clicker way.
I guess I'm not really sure what I want from clicker training at this point, but I plan to keep going anyway - maybe my dog will train me to give her treats! That wouldn't be such a bad thing at our house.
I'm also trying to decide about buying one of those toys that you put the kibble in so that the meal becomes a challenge. I'm looking for something easy to clean, easy to load, not annoyingly loud.
Until next time,
RB
Toys with kibble
There are plenty available in stores and on the internet.
I recommend choosing one that doesn't have just one big hole that the food can fall out of easily. Ones that the food needs to go through a maze or something similar, I like best, because it chalenges the dog.
I am slightly confused when you say you miss training with cues. In clicker training, you still use cues... you just start introducing a cue after a behavior is solid. As Karen Pryor put it in one of her videos... (I am going to paraphrase here) if someone were to just start saying to you jnwoi, you would have no idea what was going on. They might even become frustrated because you weren't doing it. Now, if you were jumping up and down because they shaped that behavior and introduced that same word everytime you jumped, you would understand the meaning of the word.
Thanks NayNay
Thanks NayNay for reminding me about backwards chaining. That gives me a few more steps to work on.
I did a few short training sessions with the pencil while taking Jasmine outside to the bathroom. Somehow I was able to hold the clicker and a pencil in my left hand, with the leash in my right hand. Jas didn't nose the pencil, but she did walk on a loose leash, because she was so curious what I was up to, and ended up following the pencil tip as we walked. I didn't know if I should click/treat or not because I do want to teach her to walk on a loose leash, but that wasn't what I had in mind for the session. Total confusion on my part. Obviously I smiled and had happy body language, so that's something.
Later I tried around the house with the pencil and she nosed it sometimes, which I happily click/treated. Other times she tried to mouth it, so I didn't click those time. I had also read that it was 'cute' to have a dog 'raise their paw' for attention instead of jumping. So when she seems to be not getting the pencil after a bit I also clicked for raised paw. I figured out pretty quickly that the behavior was only cute if J was sitting and raising a little bit. So I shaped that and she seemed pretty happy with that. It was challenging on the tile floor and she seemed to find it a bit challenging to hold up that paw and balance in a sit.
I'll try clicking mouthing the frisbee next time.
Smiles,
RB
WLL
Following the pencil for leash walking is a good idea and will probably work just fine. Another idea is to click and reward her for simply being next to you when you are walking. Then slowly extending the amount of time between clicks as her attention span and paying attention to you grows. This way, you don't have to worry about trying to balance so many things! But I must say that is talent. Maybe a circus career is in your future!!
Fetching
So, when you want to teach a chain of behaviors, work backwards is easiest. So, what you have been doing with her touching the frisbee is great. Next, click and reward for mouthing it, then for putting her mouth on it, then for picking it up. I would reccomend only working short distances, or no distance in the beggining. Anyways, then call her to bring it to you.
That is my reccomendation anyways.